This is a post designed to answer deeper theological questions. I've asked Facebook friends to post questions for discussion. I'll make a humble attempt to explore these questions from a biblical perspective.
Q: Is it possible to believe that Christ died for my sins and was the Son of God, but still not be saved? --Rick Lawson.
Q: I'm always uneasy when I read Matthew 7:22-23: "Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" How can they have His power if they don't know Him? --Lewis Crow
Rick and Lewis, your questions are related and foundational for understanding the nature of authentic salvation. Both questions are connected because both deal with profession vs. practice. There were many in Jesus' day who were "card-carrying" religious folk. But, their lives failed to correspond with their lips; They didn't practice what they preached.
In Matthew 7:22-23, Jesus noted that there would be some who would stand before His judgment seat and be surprised. They will argue that they preached and perform miracles "in the name of Jesus," but Jesus won't give any claim to them. He will call them "evildoers" and sentence them to eternal separation. To Lewis' point, these condemned will feel as if there religious work was substantive [even believing that they had experienced the power of God in their ministry], but they will in fact still be enemies of Christ.
The Apostle James offers the strongest warning in James 2:14-17:
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Verbal faith without corresponding action is useless. James calls it "dead" faith. It's not that action saves a person. We are saved by grace alone [Ephesians 2:8-9]. Rather, action, produced by authentic faith, is the evidence of faith. So, those who claim to have faith in Christ have no other evidence of the genuineness of their faith except their changed lives. To say it another way, "Talk is cheap" and "Put up or shut up."
To support his point, James writes, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder" [v. 19]. His point is sobering: Demons are good theologians. They have the right answers and can conclude correct answers. What separates them from the rest of creation is their failure to act on what they believe. Thus, the person who claims to be a Christian, but whose life is void of evidence, is no better than demons and is in danger of missing out on Christ's best when they stand before Him.
I hope this helps. I look forward to your comments.
15 comments:
What might be more important, rather than focusing on whether a person casts out demons, or heals, or even becomes a missionary in a foreign land, is simply their personal relationship with Christ. The rest of all that is between them and God, and any finger pointing from man is, to me, wandering into Matthew 7 territory.
Fine tuning and deepening my relationship with God is my primary focus, and if He directs me into action, then that's simply what I do. And just getting across the finish line with my eyes on my sweet Jesus is all I care about. He is doing the work, not me. He gets the glory, not me. Question #1 up there forgot one very important part of that question - it isn't just believing Christ died for my sins and that He is the Son of God, but initially, admitting my sins .... and I have to confess something every day. I KNOW I am saved, I have no doubt. And that is personal and private - between God and me.
"Void of evidence?" One might wonder . . . Says who?
Irene, Thanks for your comment. You make some very good points.
I would offer that our faith, while in our heart, is not entirely a private matter (This is part of what I'm preaching on Sunday!). The whole New Testament implores Christians to "work out their faith" (Philippians 2) and let their faith (aka "light") be seen by all so that others will glorify God. Moreover, on more than one occasion, the New Testament writers require those in the church to look for the fruit/evidence of those who claim to be Believers, to stay away from heretics and to avoid the practices of evil-doers. The only way that a Christian would be able to do that would be to humbly assess the lifestyle of people around them. So, while we are not ultimately subject to the world's judgment, we are to demonstrate the fruit of righteousness that can be read by all. In this way, we glorify God.
I only hope and pray that my own actions are by faith, and in the direction God is leading me. And whether or not man recognizes it, is not what’s important. And whether I see anyone watching or listening, it is not my primary reason to act upon the urgings of my Lord. I might offer that not all works of faith are ‘seen by all’ – I know of loving Christians who quietly do God’s bidding, with only God watching.
That’s not to say I wouldn’t profess my faith in a group setting – I wouldn’t hesitate for a moment! .. or that I wouldn’t try to perform as God leads.
But, every day there are new circumstances that challenge our faith, our conviction, and there are new lies told that would sway many who are not solid in their theology. People are struggling to overcome their mountains.
Therefore, I must disagree that “the New Testament writers require those in the church to look for the fruit/evidence of those who claim to be Believers, and to humbly assess the lifestyle of people around them.” I’m going to need a verse to support that statement.
Assessing people’s lifestyle can lend itself to legalism. It “sounds” like you are looking for people to be justified by works. There are many in the church who are simply trying to make it through from moment to moment.
Many people trying to deal with so many pressures of life, leaning on God to guide them through perhaps “horrors” they have experienced.
So I put these question to you:
Will those particular people be so inspired by a message that tells them the church is going to assess their lifestyle?
Are they going to return when a message says the church is “required” to look for “fruit/evidence?”
Are those who are not saved, who are visiting for the first time, going to give their lives to Jesus this week because of your message?
Are those who are hoping to find God this Sunday, . . . ???
Much love,
Irene
Irene,
Thanks again for writing. Let me clarify several things. I apologize for not being clear.
1. I never intended to suggest that our actions are primarily or exclusively for man to see. Indeed, we live Coram Deo. I am stating that our SOME of our actions should be able to be evaluated by man. More about this later.
2. I agree with you that assessing one another's lifestyles CAN lead to legalism. I would never urge people to judge for judgment sake. That's a danger we all have to be on guard against.
3. I definitely dont mena to promote justification by works. What we're talking about is sanctification, not justification. This is Jame's point. This is why he uses the illustration of Abraham offering Isaac on the altar (Genesis 22). This was well-after Abraham had been justified by faith (Genesis 15). James states that Abraham gave outward evidence of his faith that validated the authenticity of his faith.
4. I have no control over whether those who are not saved will give their lives to Jesus on any Sunday. I believe that the whole work of the whole gospel is the whole work of God.
You asked for verses that suggest that that we must "look for fruit" in other's lives. Be sure, when I use the phrase "look for," I don't mean it in a judgmental sense, but that, as brothers and sisters in the Lord, we should expect one another to be growing in godliness.
IN Ephesians 5:11, Paul states, "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness." How would a Christian know the deeds of darkness and decide to avoid them unless they were making an assessment about what they saw someone doing?
in Colossians 1:6, Paul affirms thChristians in Collosae by stating, "All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing." How would Paul know this unless he was looking into their lives? If their religion was simply a private matter---in their heart---how in the world would it have any outward form that Paul could notice?
Paul goes on to say in Colossians 1:10, "And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work." Again, he is expecting fruit.
In John 15:8, Jesus said, "This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, SHOWING yourselves to be my disciples." Jesus didn't have any problem telling His disciples that their discipleship should have outward evidence that proves who they are.
[SEE NEXT COMMENT FOR PART II]
[PART II from previous comment….]
In Matthew 7:16, Jesus tells His followers to watch out for false prophets. He commands, "By their fruit you will recognize them." This means His followers will have to look at people and make an assessment about whether they are true prophets or false prophets. Only by looking at their outward, visible life will disciples be able to determine one from the other. He adds, "Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
You might check out 1 Corinthians 6. Paul makes all kinds of judgments. He notes that there is sexual immorality in the church (judgment #1). He notes that the Corinthians are proud (#2). He prescribes that they should have felt grief (#3; some might mistake this for legalism). He goes on to state that they should "not associate with sexually immoral people" (v. 9). What's notable is that he adds, "not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler" (#4). The only way that the Corinthians would be able to stay away from such people IN THE CHURCH---SO-CALLED "CHRISTIANS"--- is that they would have to make an assessment about whether such a person was really being drunk, really being sexually immoral, really slandering or being an idolator. This would require them to observe a lifestyle and make a humble judgement.
I could present dozens, maybe hundreds, of other other passages. The point is that, while we must avoid being judgemental, we can expect to see fruit. The absence of fruit suggests (though we don't ultimately know)the lack of authentic faith. Which is what this whole blog was intended to be about in the first place.
Long response, I know. But I felt that you deserved a thorough explanation.
Blessings,
David
Interesting that the topic you cover in the Q and A today is assurance of salvation. This is exactly what we discussed today at our Precepts Bible Study. Obedience, faith and standing firm under trials seem to be a mark of true salvation in 1 Peter.
AMen, amen amen sir! The truth set us free, unashamed truth! Only God is control of saving souls etc... the gospel isn't always seeker sensitive! My sweet hubby and I have been RIGHT here, and praise God we heard the unashamed truth the God and the Holy Spirit used to set us free and save us! Sweet Irene, i will tell you that this EXACT subject is what kept my precious husband and I from blissfully and assuredly walking into hell... the scriptures say that few find the narrow gate and pathway... few... i know that this truth is a HARD one, we are hard hearted human sinners. I can just say that i have experienced this FIRST hand and know exactly what it is to 'proffes to be saved' vs. to to have had an encounter with the living all mighty God that my life is transformed! oh, i wish more preachers would preach on this, praise God one man did and the Holy Spirit used it for our salvation.
Thanks for your clarification. Great conversation!!!
I’m just cautious about a man who might put fruit first, and perhaps the evidence they are seeing might be misconceived.
One little point – John 15:8 originally did not have the word “showing”; the 2010 version has added that word.
NKJV: By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
In the context of the prior verses, it was emphasizing to “abide in Me” (“without Me you can do nothing”) so that God may be Glorified, and then the conjunctive word “so” was next, (not ‘showing’) inferring that the obvious result of abiding in Him was that we would become His disciples.
When I said it is private, all I meant is that only God judges or knows for certain. And for true Christians, God would certainly help them discern those who are doing “fruitless deeds of darkness” – it becomes quite obvious to those who are abiding in Him. Looking for “Outward Evidence” to prove who they are, is twisting the order of things, I would think. Almost a chicken/egg dilemma.
See ya on Sunday!!! Looking forward to this!
Love,
Irene
Pastor - would you ever recommend my asking a trusted Christian brother or sister to tell me what fruit they see in me?
thank you
-Leslie
Leslie,
I think asking a Christian brother or sister to comment on what they see in you is a courageous and excellent idea. Asking more than one will enable you to see a patern 9i.e., just because a person doesn't "see" compassion in me doesn't make me conclude I'm not compassionate. But if 3 people say the same thing, I should be alerted).
Blessings,
David
Thank you. Things are a little clearer. But I still have a question.
Analogy time. When we had a dog, I saw her every day. As she grew, it seemed so gradual to me that I couldn't really tell the difference. But a neighbor who hadn't seen the dog for a while noticed how much she had grown.
In the same way, it's much easier to see change in another person's life. What's a good method for objective self-examination?
Batman, your question is a good one. Leslie's point above is helpful: Ask a friend you trust. Another way is to look, not back at the last month, but at the last year. Like a growing dog, we probably won't be able to detect change over a short time. But, we should be able to detect change over a longer period.
You could use the fruit sof the Spirit (Galatians 5) or the 30 Core Competencies at PBC as a personal inventory. Every Christian ought to be able to identify SOME areas of ongoing transformaiton in their life if they look back over the course of a year.
For my story, according to “Christians”, we (Brant and I) were considered “evil”, “sinners”, and a whole lot of other things. We loved the Lord. We also were kicked out of some of the finest churches in the city in Canada where we lived. When we found a church that accepted us as we were and walked along side us to help us grow and get through the issues we were facing, some of the elders of that church left. BUT, people in the neighborhood who were in similar situations, started coming to our church. It started growing. Many could relate to the struggles we faced, and some grew, some didn’t.
So, did God use us? Yes. Were we fruitful – perhaps yes, perhaps no. But we were on the journey that was between God and us. God knew where we were, He loved us where we were, and we eventually got to a place where “Christians” would accept us too.
So, perhaps one might think about how you “assess” those who may not look Christian.
Blessings,
Irene
I saw this note today, and thought it was appropriate in this string:
"The next time you feel like God can't use you, or you don't "look Christian", just remember... Noah was a drunk, Abraham was too old, Isaac was a daydreamer, Jacob was a liar, Leah was ugly, Joseph was abused, Moses had a stuttering problem, Gideon was afraid, Sampson had long hair and was a womanizer, Rahab was a prostitute, Jeremiah and Timothy were too young, David had an affair and was a murderer, Elijah was suicidal, Isaiah preached naked, Jonah ran from God, Naomi was a widow, Job went bankrupt, John the Baptist ate bugs, Peter denied Christ, The Disciples fell asleep while praying, Martha worried about everything, The Samaritan woman was divorced-more than once, Zaccheus was too small, Paul hunted and murdered Christians and was too religious, Timothy had an ulcer... AND Lazarus was dead!
No more excuses!! God can use you to your full potential. Besides you aren't the message, you are the messenger!"
What a blessing this blog and debate was to me! Thanks!
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